Tweet
Voici, pour ceux que cela peut intéresser, copie d'un échange de mails récents que j'ai eu avec Austin sur le sujet de la construction de plans de vol en général et sur Goodway en particulier. J' ai bien l'intention de le relancer sur ce sujet, dès la finalisation de X-Plane v10.20, comme il le suggère
On Sep 24, 2012, at 3:54 AM, Michel S. wrote:
Hi Austin,
It's been quite some time since I last bothered you with boring questions about X-Plane's development. I am sure that you are more than overloaded and I hate to waste any of your time, but the issue I would like to raise is essential :
It is about the general problem of flight-plan building.
I am speaking as a MAC user but I believe that Wiindows and Linux users are more or less in the same situation.
The issue is two fold :
- Non compatible Nav data bases and flight-plans formats between different aircrafts
- Lack of flight-plan building and editing tools
As you know, there are more and more third parties aircrafts equipped with sophisticated FMC, plus general use FMC devices like the UFMC (Universal FMC), which have in common the fact that they use the Navigraph nav data base which is not compatible with X-Plane data base (the latest being the amazing boeing777 pro).
This is bad enough but there is more: the only way to build flight-plans for these new FMCs is to purchase Navigraph compatible maps and to enter sequentially each waypoint without any graphical help. This a long and tedious process and it makes flying the new aircrafts much less attractive. Maybe some addicts will easily accept this constraint, I am not one of them.
To make things still worse, the stock of fms flight-plans we have created over the years, which represent a valuable investment, cannot be used, and there is no easy way to convert them in a format compatible with the new FMCs. I am not even sure that all these new FMCs use the same format.
now, how can we deal with this very unsatisfactory situation? Maybe you have already started thinking about it. Here are some suggestions:
Of course, ideally, we should end up with a unique nav data base, a unique fligh-plan format, and an ergonomic graphic tool for building and editing flight-plans for any aircraft. I am conscious that there are difficult technical, commercial and maintenance problems to solve before we get there, so, let's look at some less ambitious solutions.
Let's start with the tools :
For MAC users, today's situation is the following : There is only one really usable solution available. it is a very good building and editing tool named "Goodway". It uses the X-Plane nav data base plus some incorporated complements for SIDs and STARs. The tool displays very good maps which can be zoomed, scrolled, and uncluttered as needed. The flight-plan is automatically built in a first phase, both for lnav and vnav, taking into account the characteristics of the selected aircraft plus some selected options. The route is displayed on the map and is fully editable with the mouse, Waypoints and altitudes can be modified at will very easily. Custom waypoint can be created.
When finalized, both the flight-plan detailed list and the map can be printed. It is also possible to export the flight-plan into X-Plane in fms format and into a plugin which enables access to the flight-plan in flight via a pop-up display.
It can also export the flight-plan in text format or in SquawkBox (sbp) format.
Unfortunately, this tool is not without problems :
- The number of available SIDs and STARs is very limited
- The height of obstacles is not in the nav base, so flying altitudes are only derived from the aircraft cruising altitude and climb/descent characteristics. Other desired altitudes for waypoints must be entered manually.
- There is no compatibility with Navigraph nav data base
- This software has been unsupported for more than two years. It does'nt work with X-Plane v10 and we don't know if or when it will be updated. Today, if we want to use Goodway, we must keep a working 9.7 version somewhere in the com****r.
- I tried via different means to get in touch with the author (Stephane Maurel), I wanted to convince him to update his software for v10 and to upgrade it with on option to work with Navigraph, but at this date I have had no answer to my posts.
Compatibility issues :
- It is clear that in all cases, we need Goodway or an equivalent building and editing tool. It shouldn't be to difficult to make Goodway compatible with Navigraph nav data base on an optional basis.
- It should also be easy to add the possibility to export a flight-plan from Goodway in a format compatible with the new FMCs format provided that all the new FMC adopt a common format and that this format accepts custom waypoints not contained in Navigraph database.
- Thanks to these custom waypoints, it would be possible to design a converting tool which could convert an existing fms X-Plane flight-plan into the aforesaid FMC common format. If a waypoint contained in the fms flight-plan doesn't exist in tn Navigraph base (which is frequent), it would automatically be converted into a custom waypoint. So the reuse of existing fms plans would become possible.
Maybe one could think of other strategies to solve our problems, but I hope you'll agree that we really need a solution.
Whatever it is, it will certainly need some cooperation and cross agreements between the parties involved : Laminar, Navigraph, eventually Goodway, and of course the developers of addon aircrafts. I believe that such a cooperation could bring some benefit to everyone.
Thanks for your patience
All the best to you and your team
Michel
REPONSE D'AUSTIN
hullo!
i cannot DISagree with a word you have written
BUT, we are planned out through 10.20 already.. with stuff that is 1000x more important than flite-planning
SO, do this: the day AFTER 10.20 ships, ping me with this.
at that point, we will be deciding what will go into 10.30 and we can decide how to prioritize
austin
On Sep 24, 2012, at 3:54 AM, Michel S. wrote:
Hi Austin,
It's been quite some time since I last bothered you with boring questions about X-Plane's development. I am sure that you are more than overloaded and I hate to waste any of your time, but the issue I would like to raise is essential :
It is about the general problem of flight-plan building.
I am speaking as a MAC user but I believe that Wiindows and Linux users are more or less in the same situation.
The issue is two fold :
- Non compatible Nav data bases and flight-plans formats between different aircrafts
- Lack of flight-plan building and editing tools
As you know, there are more and more third parties aircrafts equipped with sophisticated FMC, plus general use FMC devices like the UFMC (Universal FMC), which have in common the fact that they use the Navigraph nav data base which is not compatible with X-Plane data base (the latest being the amazing boeing777 pro).
This is bad enough but there is more: the only way to build flight-plans for these new FMCs is to purchase Navigraph compatible maps and to enter sequentially each waypoint without any graphical help. This a long and tedious process and it makes flying the new aircrafts much less attractive. Maybe some addicts will easily accept this constraint, I am not one of them.
To make things still worse, the stock of fms flight-plans we have created over the years, which represent a valuable investment, cannot be used, and there is no easy way to convert them in a format compatible with the new FMCs. I am not even sure that all these new FMCs use the same format.
now, how can we deal with this very unsatisfactory situation? Maybe you have already started thinking about it. Here are some suggestions:
Of course, ideally, we should end up with a unique nav data base, a unique fligh-plan format, and an ergonomic graphic tool for building and editing flight-plans for any aircraft. I am conscious that there are difficult technical, commercial and maintenance problems to solve before we get there, so, let's look at some less ambitious solutions.
Let's start with the tools :
For MAC users, today's situation is the following : There is only one really usable solution available. it is a very good building and editing tool named "Goodway". It uses the X-Plane nav data base plus some incorporated complements for SIDs and STARs. The tool displays very good maps which can be zoomed, scrolled, and uncluttered as needed. The flight-plan is automatically built in a first phase, both for lnav and vnav, taking into account the characteristics of the selected aircraft plus some selected options. The route is displayed on the map and is fully editable with the mouse, Waypoints and altitudes can be modified at will very easily. Custom waypoint can be created.
When finalized, both the flight-plan detailed list and the map can be printed. It is also possible to export the flight-plan into X-Plane in fms format and into a plugin which enables access to the flight-plan in flight via a pop-up display.
It can also export the flight-plan in text format or in SquawkBox (sbp) format.
Unfortunately, this tool is not without problems :
- The number of available SIDs and STARs is very limited
- The height of obstacles is not in the nav base, so flying altitudes are only derived from the aircraft cruising altitude and climb/descent characteristics. Other desired altitudes for waypoints must be entered manually.
- There is no compatibility with Navigraph nav data base
- This software has been unsupported for more than two years. It does'nt work with X-Plane v10 and we don't know if or when it will be updated. Today, if we want to use Goodway, we must keep a working 9.7 version somewhere in the com****r.
- I tried via different means to get in touch with the author (Stephane Maurel), I wanted to convince him to update his software for v10 and to upgrade it with on option to work with Navigraph, but at this date I have had no answer to my posts.
Compatibility issues :
- It is clear that in all cases, we need Goodway or an equivalent building and editing tool. It shouldn't be to difficult to make Goodway compatible with Navigraph nav data base on an optional basis.
- It should also be easy to add the possibility to export a flight-plan from Goodway in a format compatible with the new FMCs format provided that all the new FMC adopt a common format and that this format accepts custom waypoints not contained in Navigraph database.
- Thanks to these custom waypoints, it would be possible to design a converting tool which could convert an existing fms X-Plane flight-plan into the aforesaid FMC common format. If a waypoint contained in the fms flight-plan doesn't exist in tn Navigraph base (which is frequent), it would automatically be converted into a custom waypoint. So the reuse of existing fms plans would become possible.
Maybe one could think of other strategies to solve our problems, but I hope you'll agree that we really need a solution.
Whatever it is, it will certainly need some cooperation and cross agreements between the parties involved : Laminar, Navigraph, eventually Goodway, and of course the developers of addon aircrafts. I believe that such a cooperation could bring some benefit to everyone.
Thanks for your patience
All the best to you and your team
Michel
REPONSE D'AUSTIN
hullo!
i cannot DISagree with a word you have written
BUT, we are planned out through 10.20 already.. with stuff that is 1000x more important than flite-planning
SO, do this: the day AFTER 10.20 ships, ping me with this.
at that point, we will be deciding what will go into 10.30 and we can decide how to prioritize
austin
Commentaire